Author Topic: Please avoid these mistakes with your UrWelt editor

Dark_Ansem

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#898 November 17, 2018, Saturday, 07:46 pm
so, I've modded for a number of games and people around, and, like the dear local Druid recommended, I am going to list the most annoying things that happened with every editor I have experience of.

    • Dragon Age Toolset: stupidly complicated, need to clone the entire campaign to make alterations, very difficult to implement because resources were locked down and contents were often impossible to reach (see Awakening, Witch Hunt), had to resort to create "fake DLC" to add them to main campaign, haven't seen a single custom campaign, impossible to import new resources;
    • Aurora Toolset: while very easy to use to create adventures AND its "Encounter" and "Sound" creation properties were quite good and atmospheric (can provide more detail if needed), it was plagued by inconsistent in-game measurements, mostly no control over tilesets, stupidly hardcoded values, inaccurate creature information, and no possibility to alter gameplay rules from it, had to resort to 2DA editing and TLK alteration. Also the Quest system was a bit confusing, but overall, I'd say it was the 2nd best of the bunch. Very difficult to import new assets.
    • Skyrim Creation Kit: great for creating adventures AND gameplay rules alterations AND atmospheric environments thanks to Imagespace (direct shader alterationper each world mass), it had a massive flaw, you couldn't do anything revolutionary with it, thanks to its many bugs, clunky scripts and hardcoded values. Example: I wanted to create an entire set of Dark Magic damage spells. To do properly, one had to create resistances and a new elemental damage, which however was bound to an Actor Value, a series of hardcoded parameters, which you could not edit in any way. Wanted to create a new skill tree? Same thing. Still, easiest one to use and my 1st preference.
    • Divinity Engine: confusing, complicated, but indeed powerful-ish. Not easy to import new assets
    • Oblivion/Morrowind Construction set: while very easy to create an adventure with, it is very difficult to alter gameplay rules with. Not powerful at all. Outclassed by the Skyrim editor
    [/size][/list]
    Last edited: November 18, 2018, Sunday, 09:56 am by Dark_Ansem
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    Andronius The Druid

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    #900 November 17, 2018, Saturday, 08:00 pm
    Constructive feedback is always welcome. Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas. If somebody else has suggestions, Editor Tutorial ideas, experiences with other Editors/tools, life-quality improvements ideas, or any comments regarding modding, they can also post them here.

    Dark_Ansem

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    #902 November 17, 2018, Saturday, 08:05 pm
    Want me to post the details of Sound Effects and Encounters from Aurora?
    One who knows nothing can understand nothing.

    Andronius The Druid

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    #908 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 12:04 am
    Want me to post the details of Sound Effects and Encounters from Aurora?
    :D Please do, if you think it might help. All constructive feedback (including what you guys didn't like/were dissapointed about other editors) is welcome, so hopefully we avoid those shortcomings. In my case, for instance, I have +400 hours on DoS2 GMMode, and had fun DMing some campaings there and playing others, but did find a bit annoying the fact that only a handful of the monsters/creatures from the main game were readily available in the GMM. People had to make great efforts to bring the main game assets and maps into the GMM. Thankfully, our tools will have already there every single asset at our disposal, and the flexibility to "craft" or import your own assets, maps, monsters, NPCs etc.

    Dark_Ansem

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    #910 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 01:43 am
    There you go :)

    Encounters: https://nwnlexicon.com/index.php?title=Maxam_-_Introduction_To_Encounters

    This is already good, although it could actually improve significantly with more GUI variables (like, run at night etc). And of course encounters provide a bit more variable experiences than handcrafting creatures here in there, can be respawnable at spawn points etc...

    Sounds: look here https://neverwintervault.org/rolovault/projects/nwn1/other/618/Dezmodian1084583690156Manual.pdf
    Pages 70-73 in Adobe...

    Imagespace: https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=ImageSpace#Overview
    Imagespace Modifier: https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=ImageSpace_Modifiers

    Last edited: November 18, 2018, Sunday, 12:41 pm by Dark_Ansem
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    Pathfinder

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    #912 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 09:00 am
    This is only maybe loosely for topic but:

    - If possible please make in the game for option to "pin" notepad notes in game (world) map like in NWN. Allso option to write and edit your own "Journal". In NWN journal was simple just "YourPCname.txt" and you were able to write what ever you want there.

    Reasons for this request are:
    In many games you discover places, get quest and so on. And you might get many of them. So if I can put little "pins" in the map like "remember to get back later and try to pick this one lock again when level up" or "I find bear marks here at a tree but they were old, maybe I can find honey during summer so remember to come back and check" kind of things.

    Allso for PC journal => you might want to keep track of what you do, sure you most likely get quest log but still. You can write what ever you want to or write nothing. But for me it was allways really nice to write own notes like where I find what things, what date it was, how I felt when I encountered some NPC (and maybe reason for that). After all if you in game have encountered someone yesterday but in real life had to work for a month outside country and when get back and start playing.. ..it get a bit hard to remember "what you say yesterday"  :lol:

    - Naturally it would be great to have option to write (small) description for PC and NPC's allso (so you can "inspect" NPC / PC if we get multiplayer or just because you want to see "how other people see" your PC just like you can inspect any other item)

    Then some (really random) ideas for game engine:
    - In NWN I really loved how you were able to customize and make make new things. For example we had in our PW a wizard tower, if you had good enough spot skill you were able to discover a hidden (underground) path (you get option to get transferred there if you so choose). Then you find a door, if you whisper pass phrase you were able to open that door (for small amount of time) and it would lock after soon enough. So small little things what you can combine make perfection.

    - Same for items you can put out there, for example in one dungen I created some torches at a wall, you were able to put them off or on and after some long corridor you find a really sturdy door. Yes, you were able to hack it down (if you make like 1000 damage against damage resistance 5 or so) OR if you were smart you did find a key at near torch holder at a wall when you tried to turn it off / on and find that you were able to turn it sideways and get a key.

    - Ability checks. It is allways really REALLY nice to see little touches, like when you find an "normal" dungeon where are some splashes of blood claw marks and fur near altar, if you study them you might find an little description based on your search skill and if your let's say animal empathy / wilderness lore or something like that skill is high enough you might think that action is unnatural for animal and when you finally encounter it you have option to try and heal it instead of just kill it at it's cage (where you have to go through if you want to go other side)*1. Now healing might actually just transfer you other side of the cage and let you go pass the danger, or it might give you (if you are let's say a druid) animal companion because that dangerous animal were actually trying to protect it's offspring or what ever.

    *1 Yes, I know, these "skills" were made up / taken from different RPG's, but you do get my point.
    "Road to the man's heart go through the chest"

    Dark_Ansem

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    #913 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 10:01 am
    This is only maybe loosely for topic but:

    - If possible please make in the game for option to "pin" notepad notes in game (world) map like in NWN. Allso option to write and edit your own "Journal". In NWN journal was simple just "YourPCname.txt" and you were able to write what ever you want there.

    Reasons for this request are:
    In many games you discover places, get quest and so on. And you might get many of them. So if I can put little "pins" in the map like "remember to get back later and try to pick this one lock again when level up" or "I find bear marks here at a tree but they were old, maybe I can find honey during summer so remember to come back and check" kind of things.

    Allso for PC journal => you might want to keep track of what you do, sure you most likely get quest log but still. You can write what ever you want to or write nothing. But for me it was allways really nice to write own notes like where I find what things, what date it was, how I felt when I encountered some NPC (and maybe reason for that). After all if you in game have encountered someone yesterday but in real life had to work for a month outside country and when get back and start playing.. ..it get a bit hard to remember "what you say yesterday"  :lol:

    - Naturally it would be great to have option to write (small) description for PC and NPC's allso (so you can "inspect" NPC / PC if we get multiplayer or just because you want to see "how other people see" your PC just like you can inspect any other item)

    Then some (really random) ideas for game engine:
    - In NWN I really loved how you were able to customize and make make new things. For example we had in our PW a wizard tower, if you had good enough spot skill you were able to discover a hidden (underground) path (you get option to get transferred there if you so choose). Then you find a door, if you whisper pass phrase you were able to open that door (for small amount of time) and it would lock after soon enough. So small little things what you can combine make perfection.

    - Same for items you can put out there, for example in one dungen I created some torches at a wall, you were able to put them off or on and after some long corridor you find a really sturdy door. Yes, you were able to hack it down (if you make like 1000 damage against damage resistance 5 or so) OR if you were smart you did find a key at near torch holder at a wall when you tried to turn it off / on and find that you were able to turn it sideways and get a key.

    - Ability checks. It is allways really REALLY nice to see little touches, like when you find an "normal" dungeon where are some splashes of blood claw marks and fur near altar, if you study them you might find an little description based on your search skill and if your let's say animal empathy / wilderness lore or something like that skill is high enough you might think that action is unnatural for animal and when you finally encounter it you have option to try and heal it instead of just kill it at it's cage (where you have to go through if you want to go other side)*1. Now healing might actually just transfer you other side of the cage and let you go pass the danger, or it might give you (if you are let's say a druid) animal companion because that dangerous animal were actually trying to protect it's offspring or what ever.

    *1 Yes, I know, these "skills" were made up / taken from different RPG's, but you do get my point.

    All excellent suggestions IMHO
    One who knows nothing can understand nothing.

    Dark_Ansem

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    #917 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 12:41 pm
    Updated post with ImageSpace references.
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    Nanashi

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    #923 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 10:00 pm
    If there's a highlight all interactive key (which there should be), make sure there's an option to exclude certain things from it. NWN2 required some very roundabout and ugly methods to hide secret doors.

    Dark_Ansem

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    #926 November 18, 2018, Sunday, 11:44 pm
    This is only maybe loosely for topic but:

    - If possible please make in the game for option to "pin" notepad notes in game (world) map like in NWN. Allso option to write and edit your own "Journal". In NWN journal was simple just "YourPCname.txt" and you were able to write what ever you want there.

    Reasons for this request are:
    In many games you discover places, get quest and so on. And you might get many of them. So if I can put little "pins" in the map like "remember to get back later and try to pick this one lock again when level up" or "I find bear marks here at a tree but they were old, maybe I can find honey during summer so remember to come back and check" kind of things.

    Allso for PC journal => you might want to keep track of what you do, sure you most likely get quest log but still. You can write what ever you want to or write nothing. But for me it was allways really nice to write own notes like where I find what things, what date it was, how I felt when I encountered some NPC (and maybe reason for that). After all if you in game have encountered someone yesterday but in real life had to work for a month outside country and when get back and start playing.. ..it get a bit hard to remember "what you say yesterday"  :lol:

    Isn't this already confirmed, in Update 2: "In addition to placing your own markers on the map, you can also write your own notes into the journal. Realms Beyond gives you all the tools you need to keep your information organized, without holding your hand. Important information is recorded automatically, but sorted by which character told it to you, not sorted by which quest it is related to – this way, you are free to make your own connections and come to your own conclusions, without the game doing it for you"
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    Claudius33

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    #937 November 19, 2018, Monday, 09:26 pm
    Want me to post the details of Sound Effects and Encounters from Aurora?
    :D Please do, if you think it might help. All constructive feedback (including what you guys didn't like/were dissapointed about other editors) is welcome, so hopefully we avoid those shortcomings.

    I can give you my feedback about Electron, the NWN2 Editor in the coming days if you wish.

    Dark_Ansem

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    #938 November 20, 2018, Tuesday, 12:47 am
    Want me to post the details of Sound Effects and Encounters from Aurora?
    :D Please do, if you think it might help. All constructive feedback (including what you guys didn't like/were dissapointed about other editors) is welcome, so hopefully we avoid those shortcomings.

    I can give you my feedback about Electron, the NWN2 Editor in the coming days if you wish.

    I'd personally like to know, as I looked at Electron once and said "nope".
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    Andronius The Druid

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    #945 November 20, 2018, Tuesday, 11:05 pm
    - Naturally it would be great to have option to write (small) description for PC and NPC's allso (so you can "inspect" NPC / PC if we get multiplayer or just because you want to see "how other people see" your PC just like you can inspect any other item)

    Then some (really random) ideas for game engine:
    - In NWN I really loved how you were able to customize and make make new things. For example we had in our PW a wizard tower, if you had good enough spot skill you were able to discover a hidden (underground) path (you get option to get transferred there if you so choose). Then you find a door, if you whisper pass phrase you were able to open that door (for small amount of time) and it would lock after soon enough. So small little things what you can combine make perfection.

    - Same for items you can put out there, for example in one dungen I created some torches at a wall, you were able to put them off or on and after some long corridor you find a really sturdy door. Yes, you were able to hack it down (if you make like 1000 damage against damage resistance 5 or so) OR if you were smart you did find a key at near torch holder at a wall when you tried to turn it off / on and find that you were able to turn it sideways and get a key.

    - Ability checks. It is allways really REALLY nice to see little touches, like when you find an "normal" dungeon where are some splashes of blood claw marks and fur near altar, if you study them you might find an little description based on your search skill and if your let's say animal empathy / wilderness lore or something like that skill is high enough you might think that action is unnatural for animal and when you finally encounter it you have option to try and heal it instead of just kill it at it's cage (where you have to go through if you want to go other side)*1. Now healing might actually just transfer you other side of the cage and let you go pass the danger, or it might give you (if you are let's say a druid) animal companion because that dangerous animal were actually trying to protect it's offspring or what ever.

    *1 Yes, I know, these "skills" were made up / taken from different RPG's, but you do get my point.

    All excellent suggestions IMHO
    Agreed. Most excellent suggestions and great ideas, also the Ability checks example. :salute:

    This is only maybe loosely for topic but:

    - If possible please make in the game for option to "pin" notepad notes in game (world) map like in NWN. Allso option to write and edit your own "Journal". In NWN journal was simple just "YourPCname.txt" and you were able to write what ever you want there.

    Reasons for this request are:
    In many games you discover places, get quest and so on. And you might get many of them. So if I can put little "pins" in the map like "remember to get back later and try to pick this one lock again when level up" or "I find bear marks here at a tree but they were old, maybe I can find honey during summer so remember to come back and check" kind of things.

    Allso for PC journal => you might want to keep track of what you do, sure you most likely get quest log but still. You can write what ever you want to or write nothing. But for me it was allways really nice to write own notes like where I find what things, what date it was, how I felt when I encountered some NPC (and maybe reason for that). After all if you in game have encountered someone yesterday but in real life had to work for a month outside country and when get back and start playing.. ..it get a bit hard to remember "what you say yesterday"  :lol:

    Isn't this already confirmed, in Update 2: "In addition to placing your own markers on the map, you can also write your own notes into the journal. Realms Beyond gives you all the tools you need to keep your information organized, without holding your hand. Important information is recorded automatically, but sorted by which character told it to you, not sorted by which quest it is related to – this way, you are free to make your own connections and come to your own conclusions, without the game doing it for you"

    It is (thanks for the quote @Dark_Ansem). Here you can read more about The Journal and the Map – an Adventurer’s Tools.

    Grammarsalad

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    #975 November 23, 2018, Friday, 05:04 pm
    I only mod BGEE and it's derivatives, but I really appreciate Weidu, a player created utility, which allows me to patch and modify game resources without having to completely overwrite them.

    This can be is essential for mod compatibility in BG(2)EE/IWDEE.

    https://www.weidu.org/~thebigg/README-WeiDU.html#sec2
    Last edited: November 23, 2018, Friday, 09:26 pm by Grammarsalad

    Dark_Ansem

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    #1120 January 08, 2019, Tuesday, 08:15 pm
    Want me to post the details of Sound Effects and Encounters from Aurora?
    :D Please do, if you think it might help. All constructive feedback (including what you guys didn't like/were dissapointed about other editors) is welcome, so hopefully we avoid those shortcomings.

    I can give you my feedback about Electron, the NWN2 Editor in the coming days if you wish.

    Erm... any time to provide the feedback?
    One who knows nothing can understand nothing.