Author Topic: Exploring the World #3: Camp and Survival Part 2

mąlërfjernér

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#1890 October 18, 2019, Friday, 12:35 am
@Night I probably agree with you more than you realise, especially regarding the BG3 comment... We have differing opinions on what should be prioritised, and that's fine. Like you said, mods should be able to adjust, hopefully, many of the gripes individual players have post release, and I have no doubt there will be many areas that need polishing. 

rjshae

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#1891 October 18, 2019, Friday, 03:04 am
The rest system in Kingmaker gets tedious after a while, particularly when you have a higher level party with near zero chance of getting your rest interrupted. Maybe there needs to be a casual camp option, where you just assume a night of rest but don't get any extra benefits?

RedPaladin

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#1893 October 20, 2019, Sunday, 04:46 pm
@Night I probably agree with you more than you realise, especially regarding the BG3 comment... We have differing opinions on what should be prioritised, and that's fine. Like you said, mods should be able to adjust, hopefully, many of the gripes individual players have post release, and I have no doubt there will be many areas that need polishing.
mąlërfjernér, everyone understands you ). You suggest not to waste time on nonsense. This is not bullshit. This is part of the game. An important part of it. Make it easy for people like you. But do not delete what has been done. Traveling on a map without this feature will be the same as in other games. From one battle, get to another faster. This will not be an RPG, this is action. With best regards  ;)

The rest system in Kingmaker gets tedious after a while, particularly when you have a higher level party with near zero chance of getting your rest interrupted. Maybe there needs to be a casual camp option, where you just assume a night of rest but don't get any extra benefits?
I totally agree with you. At high levels, the camp is only for memorizing magic spells and rest, and random meetings on the plot of the game ... improvisation)
Sorry for my English )

Vision

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#1898 October 22, 2019, Tuesday, 06:53 pm
Respecting DD rules,  a spellcaster have to rest during a night to learn new spells and concerning a RPG table, it s not a problem cause the GM can adjust whenever some difficulties to let the campaign go on. With a video game, there s no GM and everything is depending about the time you spend in the game (in an open world)..

That s why it s a bit idiot to respect this rule. You should find some shrine dedicated to your god if you wanna get new spells...

olegbenloleg

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#1907 October 24, 2019, Thursday, 11:51 am
@Night I probably agree with you more than you realise, especially regarding the BG3 comment... We have differing opinions on what should be prioritised, and that's fine. Like you said, mods should be able to adjust, hopefully, many of the gripes individual players have post release, and I have no doubt there will be many areas that need polishing.
mąlërfjernér, everyone understands you ). You suggest not to waste time on nonsense. This is not bullshit. This is part of the game. An important part of it. Make it easy for people like you. But do not delete what has been done. Traveling on a map without this feature will be the same as in other games. From one battle, get to another faster. This will not be an RPG, this is action. With best regards  ;)

The rest system in Kingmaker gets tedious after a while, particularly when you have a higher level party with near zero chance of getting your rest interrupted. Maybe there needs to be a casual camp option, where you just assume a night of rest but don't get any extra benefits?
I totally agree with you. At high levels, the camp is only for memorizing magic spells and rest, and random meetings on the plot of the game ... improvisation)
Your dramatize quite a bit. Maybe you think this makes yout point more convincing but to me it becomes pointles. Just because an RPG misses one aspect of roleplaying it does not become its opposite: an action game. There are still a lot of other aspects like fore example the conversation system. For example by having to choose different options of answers in a conversation or the best character for a converasation I get the chance to become a part of this fantastic world.
A rest System is once you found out how it works just monoton and tedious. This sort o a game mechanic will prevent me, and maybe other people, to become a living part of the game.
Best Regards

Lucumo

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#1908 October 24, 2019, Thursday, 12:22 pm
If you don't want a proper rest system, why don't you just play basically all the other RPGs that are coming out these days? Nothing "boring" or "tedious" there. There are enough people who aren't a fan of the casualization of the gaming industry and their needs get basically never fulfilled.
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?

Vision

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#1912 October 25, 2019, Friday, 02:27 pm
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?

I m not sure of my answer but definetly, MMORPG are directly coming from RPG solo games , baldur s gate was just a start.. In opening the world, DaoC and Wow literally set the rules (curiously) of the future rpg solo games. From here, there s no real turning back cause the economic system decided for you, what kind of game you have to play, ofc now there s a chance with indie developpers but it s still goes on.. It s difficult to know what concept please customers and tiny develoopers group as Ceres games can t make a gamble on a new type of game. Indeed, most of rpg games has experimented difficulties concerning rest system, for the obvious reason i talked before this post, and now it seems difficult to explore a new type of game with two tier of linearity and one tier for opening world (reducing rest problem / control experience)

There s whining cause it s the fragile part of rpg videos games. My wish is to see more part of the game with interruption ala "dark eye book", asking for choices to the player with an ink painting window describing the environement... 
Last edited: October 26, 2019, Saturday, 02:48 pm by malax

Lucumo

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#1913 October 25, 2019, Friday, 04:59 pm
It s difficult to know what concept please customers and tiny develoopers group as Ceres games can t make a gamble on a new type of game.
You are missing something really important and crucial here though: Ceres Games pitched the game (including the content and type (which also includes the rest system)) to potential backers on Kickstarter. Backers said: "Ok, I like those ideas, I'm willing to put money down and fund those ideas." As such, Ceres Games has an obligation to fulfill their promises to the people that already put the money down for what was presented. Non-backers have no voice, what they want is completely secondary. After all, if you screw over your actual backers, you basically lose all credibility as a studio (not to mention the morals of the issue). And if you ever want to use Kickstarter again...tough luck. So at best, other backers can propose changes to the developers. However, you have to remember that the silent majority went d'accord with the presentation of Ceres Games. So they aren't even neutral but are in differing weights of "yes" when it comes to the content of the game, which includes the rest system. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have written anything and also just stayed quiet and let Ceres Games do their work instead of bothering them all the time but in this case, I felt the need to say that the rest system they showed and talked about is basically exactly what I want - just to provide some counterweight.
Last edited: October 25, 2019, Friday, 05:01 pm by Lucumo

Vision

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#1914 October 25, 2019, Friday, 08:47 pm
If i have to balance this kind of game WITH a rest system, i would give a try to balance in first the difficulty settings (normal, hard, etc..)  only affecting the power of "healing" functions instead of touching the hit points of monsters (If you do then you should have a really good reason)
Last edited: October 26, 2019, Saturday, 02:48 pm by malax

RedPaladin

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#1918 October 26, 2019, Saturday, 08:46 am
@Night I probably agree with you more than you realise, especially regarding the BG3 comment... We have differing opinions on what should be prioritised, and that's fine. Like you said, mods should be able to adjust, hopefully, many of the gripes individual players have post release, and I have no doubt there will be many areas that need polishing.
mąlërfjernér, everyone understands you ). You suggest not to waste time on nonsense. This is not bullshit. This is part of the game. An important part of it. Make it easy for people like you. But do not delete what has been done. Traveling on a map without this feature will be the same as in other games. From one battle, get to another faster. This will not be an RPG, this is action. With best regards  ;)

The rest system in Kingmaker gets tedious after a while, particularly when you have a higher level party with near zero chance of getting your rest interrupted. Maybe there needs to be a casual camp option, where you just assume a night of rest but don't get any extra benefits?
I totally agree with you. At high levels, the camp is only for memorizing magic spells and rest, and random meetings on the plot of the game ... improvisation)
Your dramatize quite a bit. Maybe you think this makes yout point more convincing but to me it becomes pointles. Just because an RPG misses one aspect of roleplaying it does not become its opposite: an action game. There are still a lot of other aspects like fore example the conversation system. For example by having to choose different options of answers in a conversation or the best character for a converasation I get the chance to become a part of this fantastic world.
A rest System is once you found out how it works just monoton and tedious. This sort o a game mechanic will prevent me, and maybe other people, to become a living part of the game.
Best Regards

You propose to remove what has been done. People managed to do what others could not do. It took time and labor of people. This idea has a lot of fans. This is complete selfishness on your part. I suggest for people like you to disable this feature in the difficulty levels of the game. But do not delete. It is well implemented in P km. kingdom management. With best regards.

If you don't want a proper rest system, why don't you just play basically all the other RPGs that are coming out these days? Nothing "boring" or "tedious" there. There are enough people who aren't a fan of the casualization of the gaming industry and their needs get basically never fulfilled.
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?
Good answer  ;)
Sorry for my English )

Night

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#1919 October 26, 2019, Saturday, 07:06 pm
@Night I probably agree with you more than you realise, especially regarding the BG3 comment... We have differing opinions on what should be prioritised, and that's fine. Like you said, mods should be able to adjust, hopefully, many of the gripes individual players have post release, and I have no doubt there will be many areas that need polishing.
mąlërfjernér, everyone understands you ). You suggest not to waste time on nonsense. This is not bullshit. This is part of the game. An important part of it. Make it easy for people like you. But do not delete what has been done. Traveling on a map without this feature will be the same as in other games. From one battle, get to another faster. This will not be an RPG, this is action. With best regards  ;)

The rest system in Kingmaker gets tedious after a while, particularly when you have a higher level party with near zero chance of getting your rest interrupted. Maybe there needs to be a casual camp option, where you just assume a night of rest but don't get any extra benefits?
I totally agree with you. At high levels, the camp is only for memorizing magic spells and rest, and random meetings on the plot of the game ... improvisation)
Your dramatize quite a bit. Maybe you think this makes yout point more convincing but to me it becomes pointles. Just because an RPG misses one aspect of roleplaying it does not become its opposite: an action game. There are still a lot of other aspects like fore example the conversation system. For example by having to choose different options of answers in a conversation or the best character for a converasation I get the chance to become a part of this fantastic world.
A rest System is once you found out how it works just monoton and tedious. This sort o a game mechanic will prevent me, and maybe other people, to become a living part of the game.
Best Regards

You propose to remove what has been done. People managed to do what others could not do. It took time and labor of people. This idea has a lot of fans. This is complete selfishness on your part. I suggest for people like you to disable this feature in the difficulty levels of the game. But do not delete. It is well implemented in P km. kingdom management. With best regards.

If you don't want a proper rest system, why don't you just play basically all the other RPGs that are coming out these days? Nothing "boring" or "tedious" there. There are enough people who aren't a fan of the casualization of the gaming industry and their needs get basically never fulfilled.
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?
Good answer  ;)

Holy words I am also fed up of always seeing the usual old story of cRPG more and more rail road with the character that looks like a god and that to win just be quick to dodge and hit. A cRPG like this in which the tactics, the management of resources and, from what has been seen for the dialogues, focuses on reasoning and on interpretation choices have my highest support. So I prefer to spend my money on ideas like these from small studios that can be created rather than on big, famous brands where marketing is and "the audience" to choose how to make a game. I have been developing for more than 20 years at the enterprise level of course, but if I could lend a hand I would prefer to help studies like Ceres than Larian in BG3 that I'm so afraid of is a game for "the masses".

Cernu

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#1920 October 26, 2019, Saturday, 07:15 pm
Quote
You are missing something really important and crucial here though: Ceres Games pitched the game (including the content and type (which also includes the rest system)) to potential backers on Kickstarter.
You are missing something really important and crucial here though: backing anything on kickstarter is a gamble. The project people could as well run with you money, and you could do nothing about it.

I overall think the lack of basic updates and PR those days is making people nervous. Come on Ceres, dont give me the shit that you don't have time to post a few screenshots and a few explanations here and then.
One thousand leagues Adventure starts with a step.

Speculator

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#1921 October 27, 2019, Sunday, 08:05 am

I overall think the lack of basic updates and PR those days is making people nervous. Come on Ceres, dont give me the shit that you don't have time to post a few screenshots and a few explanations here and then.

Respectfully there was a brief update on the forums a few weeks back

https://www.realms-beyond.com/forum/index.php?topic=371.0

This update was also on the kickstarter page. My own feeling is that this game seems more like a personal dedication project for the developers rather than a commercial enterprise. This means more time and care is taken and yes there may not be as many updates but that's fine by me. I'd rather back a project like this and wait , than just get another generic rpg commercial throwaway.

rjshae

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#1922 October 27, 2019, Sunday, 10:25 pm
If you don't want a proper rest system, why don't you just play basically all the other RPGs that are coming out these days? Nothing "boring" or "tedious" there. There are enough people who aren't a fan of the casualization of the gaming industry and their needs get basically never fulfilled.
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?

With respect, we're not whining, we're discussing. You have to look at a rest system and decide whether it is worth the player's time as implemented. A rest system with interesting events and location risk is more interesting than repeating the same sequence over and over every day of cross-country marching, as in P:K. Wouldn't it be more enjoyable to play a rest system in a risky locale, then just abstract it in cleared or safe locations? Note also they are creating a module building system, and I would like to be able to manage when and where the camp system kicks in.

RedPaladin

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#1923 October 28, 2019, Monday, 09:06 am
If you don't want a proper rest system, why don't you just play basically all the other RPGs that are coming out these days? Nothing "boring" or "tedious" there. There are enough people who aren't a fan of the casualization of the gaming industry and their needs get basically never fulfilled.
And that aside, the information about the system is almost two years old. Why all the whining now?

With respect, we're not whining, we're discussing. You have to look at a rest system and decide whether it is worth the player's time as implemented. A rest system with interesting events and location risk is more interesting than repeating the same sequence over and over every day of cross-country marching, as in P:K. Wouldn't it be more enjoyable to play a rest system in a risky locale, then just abstract it in cleared or safe locations? Note also they are creating a module building system, and I would like to be able to manage when and where the camp system kicks in.

The threat of attacking the camp is not the only function. Rest, remembering spells (you must admit, this is a necessity established by the rules), crafting and more ... At high levels, your vacation will be calmer and faster than at the initial levels.
  I understand that there are many supporters of the simplified version of the camp, and many supporters of the original version. There is only one solution to the problem. Like in P: K kingdom management. Disabling the function in the settings for the difficulty level. And everyone is happy
Sorry for my English )