Author Topic: General Requests for Game Content

LadyBard

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#1999 November 26, 2019, Tuesday, 09:39 pm
I like many of the OP's suggestions. :)

Nithral

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#2001 November 27, 2019, Wednesday, 10:08 pm
Hello!!!
And good luck with the game, i just learned about it and im very excited for it.
i`d like to request a no level cap aswell...i feel it is one of the things that kills a lot of fun in an rpg. I`m sure there are ways of making certain enemies (or all if you want) be a threat to players even later on, without regular scaling .
So please, no level cap :)

kanisatha

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#2003 November 30, 2019, Saturday, 03:58 pm
Hello!!!
And good luck with the game, i just learned about it and im very excited for it.
i`d like to request a no level cap aswell...i feel it is one of the things that kills a lot of fun in an rpg. I`m sure there are ways of making certain enemies (or all if you want) be a threat to players even later on, without regular scaling .
So please, no level cap :)
Exactly how would that work without scaling? Seems like a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. If you want no level cap, then you should reasonably accept that at those higher levels the game will be completely lacking in challenge for you. Not even a AAA game will give you unlimited ever-increasingly challenging things to do in the game world as you keep going to level 257.

Panpiper

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#2004 November 30, 2019, Saturday, 04:24 pm
Hello!!!
And good luck with the game, i just learned about it and im very excited for it.
i`d like to request a no level cap aswell...i feel it is one of the things that kills a lot of fun in an rpg. I`m sure there are ways of making certain enemies (or all if you want) be a threat to players even later on, without regular scaling .
So please, no level cap :)
Exactly how would that work without scaling? Seems like a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too. If you want no level cap, then you should reasonably accept that at those higher levels the game will be completely lacking in challenge for you. Not even a AAA game will give you unlimited ever-increasingly challenging things to do in the game world as you keep going to level 257.
The way I would do it, were I building such a game so as to avoid level scaling and yet give players something to do beyond the highest level quests, would be to surround the questing area, that is the game map proper, with 'wild' mountains. Those mountains would not be areas any player would be required to venture at any point in any quest. They would be terrain outside of what most games would simply give you as their full map. However the further you go into that extra 'off map' territory, the tougher encounters/lairs/dungeons become. The only  reason you would go there is to push your character's experience/challenge beyond the norm.

Level scaling the way most developers use it utterly destroys the whole point of leveling in the first place. Why bother having levels and experience when that lowly skeleton that challenged you at level one is exactly the same challenge to you at level 20? The reason I am leveling is specifically so that those random goblin encounters become cake walks instead of  a mortal threat every time I leave town. One levels so that one can brave more dangerous areas. This becomes a very natural difficulty control for a player. Someone who wants a greater challenge can hurry through the main quest line to get to more challenging areas more quickly. Someone who does not want the stress can hang back, do more side quests, or grind around in the lower leveled areas for random encounters to level up more before moving ahead.

Nithral

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#2005 December 01, 2019, Sunday, 12:59 am
One could simply add higher level enemies...up to a cap (higher than 20), this would be easiest, second would be giving the enemies better gear and  stronger magical items ( like sword +3 etc) wich would kinda make sense in a way that an orc warrior that is the personal guard of the orchish chieftain would have better gear than a regular rank and file orc)

Easiest still would be to simply raise the level cap to a higher number. A part of the fun of rpg`s is leveling up your characters, making weird builds with them and so on. I feel 20 is too low.

This could also depend on the size of the game, you want to make level progresion be meaningfull wich means having lvl`ups  spaced out,  not so much as to have it feel grindy and not to often so as to not become a " well i lvled up....gonna kill 7 more spiders and lvl up again" sort of thing.

This all depends on how the devs plan on pacing the content (and the lenght of the game).  There are games (like poe1 and 2) that had a low level cap and u could reach it way before the final act...at wich point it became kinda booring since you weren`t progresing anywhere!

SP rpg`s should be lenient on level caps , and i think a lot of ppl echo this sentiment.  After all it`s up to the devs but as a whole  moe lvls =more fun=more engagement.

Note that i`m not sugesting a 100 lvl cap with this!

Night

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#2006 December 01, 2019, Sunday, 05:41 pm
I must be of the old generation.

For me, a good cRPG does not have the aim of leveling up, having a difficult fight, or accumulating magic items and extraordinary equipment. A good cRPG must have a good story, interesting sub-plots maybe even of a certain consistency, possibility to solve the quests in a different way maybe with different consequences, one or two mysterious places outside the main quests to explore freely.
Going around to level up with random monsters, climbing fights to always have a challenge, having a thousand levels to be the most powerful of the realms I just don't know what to do with it. Actually the battle against the 5 goblins just started that can be deadly, and the battle with 5 other goblins when they are halfway through the game becomes a walk, I really like it because it gives me a sense of group progress instead of having to each time spend every single resource just outside the safe walls of the cities.

I certainly don't want to see goblin with 100hp and +3 weapons, it just doesn't exist. Maybe a tribal leader with some level of character to distinguish him from the others is fine, but creating an abomination like that just doesn't exist. A champion even for a minor breed like the goblins can be born from generation to generation, but whether it is the norm only to have an interesting fight I do not conceive it in a cRPG done well.

For the level cap it depends on how much the DEVs can do because each additional level means developing FEAT and SPELL and therefore they are additional costs that they may not be able to afford at the moment. A DLC or expansion could be the ideal solution, adding levels up to the 20th and maybe even missing races and classes from the beginning combined with new areas to explore or maybe a couple of additional chapters from the main story.

Nithral

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#2007 December 01, 2019, Sunday, 09:13 pm

I certainly don't want to see goblin with 100hp and +3 weapons, it just doesn't exist. Maybe a tribal leader with some level of character to distinguish him from the others is fine, but creating an abomination like that just doesn't exist. A champion even for a minor breed like the goblins can be born from generation to generation, but whether it is the norm only to have an interesting fight I do not conceive it in a cRPG done well.


why wouldn`t such a thing exists...in a world is dynamic it`s very feasible that a goblin chief/shaman/whatever obtained a very powerfull artifact and became far superior to most others of his race...while i agree with you that this would not be common it is entirely belivable that an elite squad of goblins/orcs/trolls whatever are roaming the countryside looking for whatever it is they care about.
After all that`s how your party does it...start off from lowly run of the mill adventurers and become legends. It only makes sense that the other races that inhabit the world abide by the same rules!

Tharagavverug

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#2008 December 02, 2019, Monday, 04:39 pm
We will not have any level scaling, but we also don't plan on infinite levelups. We're using the 3.5 OGL after all, where 20 is considered to be epic level, and anything above 30 just becomes ridiculous. A level 30 party could openly challenge gods, for example, and in the setting of Realms Beyond the gods aren't actively meddling in human affairs so that kind of plot wouldn't work out for our game.

We're aiming for a level cap of 15 for the first release of the game, and increase it to 20 or even 25 with expansions post-release, which also add new content.

The endgame content of the version 1.0 full release would be geared towards level 12-15 characters (which includes dragons, liches, etc).

ALL the fixed encounters in the game will be hand-placed, and all the dynamic wandering encounters will be based on their point of origin (a level ~5 orc camp in the wilderness will always spawn orcs in the 3-6 level range).
Then Leothric said: "What is Tharagavverug's food?"

And the magician of Allathurion said: "His food is men."

kanisatha

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#2009 December 02, 2019, Monday, 05:20 pm
We will not have any level scaling, but we also don't plan on infinite levelups. We're using the 3.5 OGL after all, where 20 is considered to be epic level, and anything above 30 just becomes ridiculous. A level 30 party could openly challenge gods, for example, and in the setting of Realms Beyond the gods aren't actively meddling in human affairs so that kind of plot wouldn't work out for our game.

We're aiming for a level cap of 15 for the first release of the game, and increase it to 20 or even 25 with expansions post-release, which also add new content.

The endgame content of the version 1.0 full release would be geared towards level 12-15 characters (which includes dragons, liches, etc).

ALL the fixed encounters in the game will be hand-placed, and all the dynamic wandering encounters will be based on their point of origin (a level ~5 orc camp in the wilderness will always spawn orcs in the 3-6 level range).
This is perfect for me. Clearly others have a different view, but I personally love to play at low levels and hate high level gaming (in D&D). It's a big part of why I love BG1 but don't care much for BG2. That sense of awe and wonder and mortality that you get at low levels is pure gold for me, and being God-level kills my interest in the game.

Tharagavverug

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#2010 December 02, 2019, Monday, 08:32 pm
I - and most of the others in the team - enjoyed BG2 and like D&D at mid to high level, but even there is still a level cap (around 25 or so is where most DMs would call a campaign quits). D&D has never been intended to be a system where you can level up infinitely until you are level 100 or so. It's very clearly designed to be within a certain range. Once you go past the 20s there isn't a lot of interesting character development left to do. Your fighter has unlocked all useful fighter feats at that point, your wizard has unlocked even the highest spell levels, there's nowhere left to go other than adding +1 BAB, + 1d10 HP, +1 spell slot etc.

In the D&D system there is no point to leveling past a certain range, so a level cap makes sense.

In the pen and paper system, once your party has become powerful enough to stop the Tarrasque there's no place left to go.
Then Leothric said: "What is Tharagavverug's food?"

And the magician of Allathurion said: "His food is men."

Nithral

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#2013 December 03, 2019, Tuesday, 12:55 am
Thanx for the info,  i like playing at all the levels , low med high, they all have their appeal but i felt  something below 20 felt a bit shallow...might be personal prefrence but oh well
I`m curious to how you guys will make the pacing of the game or how it`ll feel to play the game in one go after all the content has been relesed for it.

You mentioned BG 2....now i`m not sure but i thing the original BG2 you could get to 20 with some chars i belive...in the original not EE wich had a higher lvl cap i belive!

Tharagavverug

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#2014 December 03, 2019, Tuesday, 11:47 am
It is not fully decided yet but the original level cap will likely be around 15.

We would then raise it when we release expansions, but that's all in the future. First comes the original campaign's full release ;)
Then Leothric said: "What is Tharagavverug's food?"

And the magician of Allathurion said: "His food is men."

Night

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#2015 December 03, 2019, Tuesday, 12:52 pm
We will not have any level scaling, but we also don't plan on infinite levelups. We're using the 3.5 OGL after all, where 20 is considered to be epic level, and anything above 30 just becomes ridiculous. A level 30 party could openly challenge gods, for example, and in the setting of Realms Beyond the gods aren't actively meddling in human affairs so that kind of plot wouldn't work out for our game.

We're aiming for a level cap of 15 for the first release of the game, and increase it to 20 or even 25 with expansions post-release, which also add new content.

The endgame content of the version 1.0 full release would be geared towards level 12-15 characters (which includes dragons, liches, etc).

ALL the fixed encounters in the game will be hand-placed, and all the dynamic wandering encounters will be based on their point of origin (a level ~5 orc camp in the wilderness will always spawn orcs in the 3-6 level range).
This is perfect for me. Clearly others have a different view, but I personally love to play at low levels and hate high level gaming (in D&D). It's a big part of why I love BG1 but don't care much for BG2. That sense of awe and wonder and mortality that you get at low levels is pure gold for me, and being God-level kills my interest in the game.

I think the same way. At one point in BG2 I had to lower the difficulty to go ahead because it was very difficult at certain levels to be able to have interesting battles. I don't like spells that are too powerful and defenses that are too specific for certain matches.