Author Topic: Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous!

LadyBard

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Nov 13, 2018
    Posts
    58
#2016 December 04, 2019, Wednesday, 05:07 pm
Are you excited!

daveyd

  • Citizen
  • Ogre Zombie
  • 4
  • Joined
    May 09, 2018
    Posts
    107
#2017 December 04, 2019, Wednesday, 05:09 pm
I assume it will still be RTwP combat?

Haven't played the Kingmaker yet because I hate RTwP but I was thinking about maybe getting it next time it's sale & playing with the TB mod. 

kanisatha

  • Town Guard
  • Marsh Goblin
  • 2
  • Joined
    Nov 16, 2018
    Posts
    43
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
#2020 December 07, 2019, Saturday, 05:03 pm
Are you excited!
I am! Though I want to hear more details, especially what the strategic level game will be here.

Braveheart

  • Member
  • Marsh Goblin
  • 2
  • Joined
    Jan 17, 2019
    Posts
    31
#2025 December 10, 2019, Tuesday, 02:38 am
Sure but I hope in that game they also give us the tools to make quests/campaigns!

rjshae

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Jan 14, 2019
    Posts
    70
    Location
    Seattle, US
#2145 February 05, 2020, Wednesday, 03:50 am
They just launched a Kickstarter. It seems to be doing well thus far.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/

The success of the first game probably helps in that regard.

LadyBard

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Nov 13, 2018
    Posts
    58
#2158 February 13, 2020, Thursday, 02:37 pm
They are doing extremely well.

HobGoblin42

  • Administrator
  • Wildland Warrior
  • 5
  • Joined
    Aug 03, 2016
    Posts
    380
    Location
    Munich
#2159 February 13, 2020, Thursday, 05:41 pm
Wow, already almost 1 million EUR pledged and still 26 days left in the campaign.  :gp: :pp:

Now, the 120.000 EUR for our Kickstarter doesn't look that much  ;)  :cp:

kanisatha

  • Town Guard
  • Marsh Goblin
  • 2
  • Joined
    Nov 16, 2018
    Posts
    43
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
#2163 February 15, 2020, Saturday, 05:03 pm
Owlcat just announced that they will include a TB mode option for their new game. And apparently, there is very little extra work or cost involved. So, the big question for me now is why other studios, even small studios just like Owlcat, don't do the same? Is it really because they can't, or is it because they won't? Is it because the expectation is that a RTwP game MUST also have TB, but the reverse expectation doesn't apply because TB makes the game "perfect" already? I would very much like to know.

HobGoblin42

  • Administrator
  • Wildland Warrior
  • 5
  • Joined
    Aug 03, 2016
    Posts
    380
    Location
    Munich
#2164 February 15, 2020, Saturday, 05:33 pm
Owlcat just announced that they will include a TB mode option for their new game. And apparently, there is very little extra work or cost involved. So, the big question for me now is why other studios, even small studios just like Owlcat, don't do the same? Is it really because they can't, or is it because they won't? Is it because the expectation is that a RTwP game MUST also have TB, but the reverse expectation doesn't apply because TB makes the game "perfect" already? I would very much like to know.

If you already fully implemented the RTwP mode, adding a turn-based is definitely doable (but it still needs at least a few months of programming and interface design).

But adding RTwP to a turn-based system afterwards is a totally different story since you need to re-implement almost everything. The basic paradigm would change and now the system suddenly needs to handle simultaneous turns.

By the way, Owlcat is not a small studio.
Last edited: February 15, 2020, Saturday, 05:37 pm by HobGoblin42

rjshae

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Jan 14, 2019
    Posts
    70
    Location
    Seattle, US
#2166 February 16, 2020, Sunday, 05:29 am
Owlcat's first go "only" made $909,057, so a lot of this support is motivated by the success of the first game. The Divinity: Original Sin series had a similar experience.

kanisatha

  • Town Guard
  • Marsh Goblin
  • 2
  • Joined
    Nov 16, 2018
    Posts
    43
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
#2167 February 17, 2020, Monday, 05:09 pm
If you already fully implemented the RTwP mode, adding a turn-based is definitely doable (but it still needs at least a few months of programming and interface design).
But adding RTwP to a turn-based system afterwards is a totally different story since you need to re-implement almost everything. The basic paradigm would change and now the system suddenly needs to handle simultaneous turns.
I'm not a programmer or game designer so I can't speak to that. But the argument is that adding TB to a RTwP game satisfies more people and makes more people enjoy the game. That argument indisputably cuts both ways. So for me as a RTwP fan who finds playing TB to be quite intolerable, a developer saying yes we can add TB to a RTwP game but can't/won't do the opposite is merely a discriminatory excuse. For better or worse, Owlcat has now set a new standard. So I, and I imagine many other RTwP fans, will very reasonably expect that a developer of a TB game will at least sincerely TRY to provide a RTwP option if at all possible. I will not accept anything less in any future TB RPG.

rjshae

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Jan 14, 2019
    Posts
    70
    Location
    Seattle, US
#2168 February 18, 2020, Tuesday, 02:38 am
I sense a great entitlement in the force.  :roll:

Lucumo

  • Town Guard
  • Gelatinous Cube
  • 3
  • Joined
    Oct 17, 2018
    Posts
    69
#2169 February 18, 2020, Tuesday, 08:08 am
I sense a great entitlement in the force.  :roll:
Hehe, you certainly aren't the only one.

HobGoblin42

  • Administrator
  • Wildland Warrior
  • 5
  • Joined
    Aug 03, 2016
    Posts
    380
    Location
    Munich
#2170 February 18, 2020, Tuesday, 12:51 pm
If you already fully implemented the RTwP mode, adding a turn-based is definitely doable (but it still needs at least a few months of programming and interface design).
But adding RTwP to a turn-based system afterwards is a totally different story since you need to re-implement almost everything. The basic paradigm would change and now the system suddenly needs to handle simultaneous turns.
I'm not a programmer or game designer so I can't speak to that. [..] ...a developer saying yes we can add TB to a RTwP game but can't/won't do the opposite is merely a discriminatory excuse.

It's not an excuse but a technical and budgetary fact that adding RTwP afterward comes with significant costs. Not even Larian tried to do that with D:OS I/II and in contrast to us, they would have the resources to do so.

Also, I personally don't like RTwP so much - it's way too stressful for me.

daveyd

  • Citizen
  • Ogre Zombie
  • 4
  • Joined
    May 09, 2018
    Posts
    107
#2171 February 19, 2020, Wednesday, 10:16 pm
If you already fully implemented the RTwP mode, adding a turn-based is definitely doable (but it still needs at least a few months of programming and interface design).
But adding RTwP to a turn-based system afterwards is a totally different story since you need to re-implement almost everything. The basic paradigm would change and now the system suddenly needs to handle simultaneous turns.
I'm not a programmer or game designer so I can't speak to that. But the argument is that adding TB to a RTwP game satisfies more people and makes more people enjoy the game. That argument indisputably cuts both ways. So for me as a RTwP fan who finds playing TB to be quite intolerable, a developer saying yes we can add TB to a RTwP game but can't/won't do the opposite is merely a discriminatory excuse. For better or worse, Owlcat has now set a new standard. So I, and I imagine many other RTwP fans, will very reasonably expect that a developer of a TB game will at least sincerely TRY to provide a RTwP option if at all possible. I will not accept anything less in any future TB RPG.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Pathfinder: Kingmaker only offer a turn-based option a player created mod?  Your post seems to imply that this isn't the case or won't be in the Wrath of the Righteous game... but after skimming the Kickstarter page I'm not seeing any indication that there's going to be any official support for a turn-based mode. Just that there's going to be mod support in general.

Realms Beyond was pitched on Kickstarter as a turn-based RPG and Ceres never promised us anything different. There will be mod support and an editor for making our own campaigns but what sort of mods get created is up to the modders and how much time and effort they can devote... While there will surely be some limits to what can be realistically achieved by modders due to the hard-coding / engine, that's true of basically every computer game in existence.

So perhaps it is possible that some modder will take on the task of attempting to make a RTwP mod for those who want it. I imagine that will involve a lot of work and perhaps something in the code will prevent it from being properly implemented.  But anyway I don't see how Owlcat has set some sort of higher standard that Ceres is disregarding.  The Pathfinder games will have features not in Realms Beyond, but the reverse is also true. At any rate, considering the rather massive differences in budget and studio sizes it seems we'd be comparing apples to organically grown heirloom oranges. 

Edit: OK I just saw someone on RPGWatch talking about a recent KS update that says there will be an official turn-based option in WotR.  It's cool they're doing that. it's always nice to give players options when possible. However, I don't know how well it will turn out.  There's not a whole lot RPGs out there with multiple combat modes to choose from, and I assume it's because getting even one combat system to work well is a lot of work.  Also, they've already raised $1.2 million with 20 days left though so it's clear they will have a much much larger budget than Realms Beyond.
Last edited: February 20, 2020, Thursday, 04:03 am by daveyd