Author Topic: let's discuss about the classes

Andronius The Druid

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#288 July 01, 2018, Sunday, 05:03 pm
Animal companions don't count as regular member. They will not occupy a character "slot" but be listed in the character sheet of the Druid (or Ranger).
Right now, we already have 6 different companions in place, but we're still looking for interesting variants especially at higher level.

We are also still undecided how to handle the companion management in detail. I like the mechanism of having a character bound item (e.g. a tooth) which enables the druid to call this specific creature on demand. This item could be achieved by defeating that creature before (or the boss of that kind), by solving quests or by purchasing it from other Druids (attached to some kind of ceremony). We want to add a little bit more emotional connection to this specific animal companion than just by selecting it from a list.

Of course, choosing one animal companion right from the start would the simplest option (like in the 3.5e rules) but would also limit the Druid's tactical opportunities (and we actually want to empover the Druid class).

We also think about linking the use of companions somehow to the environment, e.g. summoning a polar bear in a desert shouldn't be as effective as sending for a scorpion.

Thanks for such a prompt, great, detailed reply. This is all wonderful news indeed! Like Music to my ears, truly. I especially like the "emotional connection" bit, since I've never seen it properly done in any game outside tabletop (and there, rarely). Here's hoping this will be the first game ever to portray Druids well and to handle Animal Companions correctly.

As I'm a druid myself, I have about a billion ideas and suggestions of how to handle Animal Companion management in detail, and how to implement the druid spell list from 3.5, but the most important thing is what you mentioned: emotional connection. After all, as the old druidic saying goes, "He cannot be a true druid which loveth not a dog [cat, raven, eagle, weasel, toad, badger, giant snake, centipede, dragon...]". Because an Animal Companion is not just a game mechanic, a set of numbers, a stat block, a "summon" nor a minion slave (like an elemental or those demons from the abyss summoned by warlocks to do their own capricious bidding), least of all a "pet"... quite the opposite. 

For a true druid, his Animal Companion is precisely that, a dearest friend, a Companion with capital C, family, a member of the group of companions and the most important one in the party as far as he's concerned. He will treasure him, look after him, talk with him, sacrifice for him, and take care of his own needs and goals (yes! Animal Companions have their own goals -mini side quests- too!). In a tavern, the first thing a true druid will ask is if they can find a big juicy piece of meat for his Dire Wolf; when shopping, a true druid will buy bandages and medicine for his animal first; when preparing for departure he will procure Rations for both himself and his Animal Companion (something to have in mind regarding mechanics: a druid's Animal Companion is not "a summon" that appears and dissapears, it's like a member of the party, that will go with the Druid wherever he goes, and will participate in the camp, etc while not occupying a character "slot" as such; yeah, Animal Companions have a quite unique status). 


Therefore, some exceptionally good GMs penalize players for not taking proper care of their animals, or even worse, for sacrificing them just for the sake of an easy win. And they usually penalize players with either (A) loosing their Animal Companion permanently, (B) being unable to summon another for a long time, or (C) having a "Severe Depression Debuff" (similar to the "crushing despair" spell effect, but worse, making the druid/ranger randomly skip turns, and giving stat negatives, disadvantages in combat, failling spells or increased Fizzle chance, penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for several in-game days, to represent the mourning period and express the grief for that great lost of a friend or family member).

I'd suggest to ADD THEM ALL! Meaning that, the more time a druid character keeps his Animal Companion the greater passive buffs he receives, besides the animal learning different tricks, sharing spells and getting stronger and more powerful along with the druid leveling up, just as stated in 3.5 rules. But if the druid/ranger neglects his animal, forgets to feed him in camp, don't ever follow his own Animal Companion personal mini-quests, the animal will eventually leave him. In the worst case scenario (the animal is killed in battle), the druid gets a proportional "Depression Debuff" (negative stats) and it's unable to summon another animal for a long while, all of which comes accompanied with random flavor texts and skipped turns in battle, like "...Oh Fluffy, how I miss you. There's no other Dire Weasel like you in the whole world" (=> skipped turn, fizzle or failed spell, missed hit, etc).

https://youtu.be/e7unHj7yAtQ?t=9m7s
Last edited: July 06, 2018, Friday, 11:38 pm by Andronius The Druid

AbounI

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#440 August 27, 2018, Monday, 08:46 pm
Hi there!
Just saw the GC's flyer, so is the Monk definitly on the track ?


Great ! Maybe the bard next ?

HobGoblin42

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#442 August 28, 2018, Tuesday, 06:44 pm
Hi there!
Just saw the GC's flyer, so is the Monk definitly on the track ?
Great ! Maybe the bard next ?

We always wanted to implement the Monk and with a successful Kickstarter we should be able to afford the additional animation set.
Last edited: August 28, 2018, Tuesday, 06:46 pm by HobGoblin42

daveyd

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#453 August 29, 2018, Wednesday, 12:54 am
Great ! Maybe the bard next ?

That would be great.  Elven Bards make excellent Arcane Archers. And they'd make decent Eldritch Knights, too. Especially considering this game won't have multi-classing, Bards would be a nice alternative for people who want to make fighter / mage type characters.

That said, I'm also very intrigued by the Psion class. I don't think there has been anything like that in a D&D based CRPG since Dark Sun (which had Psionicists, and obviously that was based on an earlier edition). 

Perhaps some of these classes would make nice KS stretch goals.

Rizzo

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#703 November 05, 2018, Monday, 11:17 am
@Monk: To be honest, I think most player of the target demographic would prefer having the monk without special animations over not having the monk at all. Just guessing though.

@Druid (and other Casters): Do you plan to implement spells that don't directly have an effect in combat, but provide utility in the campaign for travel, surval etc..
examples: create water, purify food and drink, control weather, teleport, fly, mount, longstrider, rope trick, etc...

I find that the "utility" spells are usually what really elevates a mid-high level party into doing impossible (by normal means) things.

Journey through the perilous hot desert that takes months...
with the above spells a prepared party can turn this into a walk in the park.

I would love to be able to feel that the casters have more to offer than being artillery.

BR

Andronius The Druid

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#725 November 07, 2018, Wednesday, 01:49 am
@Druid (and other Casters): Do you plan to implement spells that don't directly have an effect in combat, but provide utility in the campaign for travel, surval etc. examples: create water, purify food and drink, control weather, teleport, fly, mount, longstrider, rope trick, etc...

I find that the "utility" spells are usually what really elevates a mid-high level party into doing impossible (by normal means) things.

Journey through the perilous hot desert that takes months... with the above spells a prepared party can turn this into a walk in the park.

I would love to be able to feel that the casters have more to offer than being artillery.
BR

This is a good question and we've been speaking about Utility Spells lately. Actually, this has been a topic of debate. So thanks for bringing it up.

First, we must not forget we aim to add the complete list of 3.5e feats and spells to our combat system, and as many Utility (non-combat) spells as possible, since we're using the ruleset of D&D 3.5e. This, of course, always with balance in mind (by no means a LvL0 spell -Cantrip or Orison- like "Create Water" will turn long desert expeditions into walks in the park: rest assured exploring deserts will always be life-threatening, even if someone made a party with 6 druids and all had the Create Water cantrip).

Second, we strive to encourage player agency and freedom, as well as creativity in solving different challenges. Therefore, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, and many other utility spells should be indeed implemented, yes. We agree we're all for every kind of utility spell possible, and we agree Magic should be versatile and Wizards are more than just living artillery!

In this regard we've stated previously:
"Due to our fully interactive environments, almost all objects in the game world can be picked up or manipulated, and even have spells cast on them. Maybe you can open that gate by casting a telekinesis spell on the lever on the other side? Experimentation is key, and an inventive player will unearth many secrets in the depths of our dungeons".

Thus, in my feeling all Druid's 3.5e spells, including but not limited to archetypal ones like Create Water, can and should be easily implemented; same will all classes. It can be done right, meaning correctly, in a balanced way, without making foraging less necessary, without damaging the world economy, without making desert expeditions easy, and without making them spammable exploits.

Personally, I am totally against defacing or mutilating classes, or trimming their spell lists. On the contrary, in my opinion we must strive to enhance and empower the strengths, differences and specific characteristics of each Class and each Race, remaining faithful to the source: in the same way that it would be absurd to take away the Sneak Attack from the Rogue, or remove the Mage's Fireball, it would be totally inappropriate and absurd to rob the Druid of his Create Water spell, or any other Utility Spell from any Class. But that's just my opinion, and the debate has not yet been settled.

What do you guys think?
Last edited: November 07, 2018, Wednesday, 02:05 am by Andronius The Druid

Dark_Ansem

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#734 November 07, 2018, Wednesday, 06:05 pm
@Druid (and other Casters): Do you plan to implement spells that don't directly have an effect in combat, but provide utility in the campaign for travel, surval etc. examples: create water, purify food and drink, control weather, teleport, fly, mount, longstrider, rope trick, etc...

I find that the "utility" spells are usually what really elevates a mid-high level party into doing impossible (by normal means) things.

Journey through the perilous hot desert that takes months... with the above spells a prepared party can turn this into a walk in the park.

I would love to be able to feel that the casters have more to offer than being artillery.
BR

This is a good question and we've been speaking about Utility Spells lately. Actually, this has been a topic of debate. So thanks for bringing it up.

First, we must not forget we aim to add the complete list of 3.5e feats and spells to our combat system, and as many Utility (non-combat) spells as possible, since we're using the ruleset of D&D 3.5e. This, of course, always with balance in mind (by no means a LvL0 spell -Cantrip or Orison- like "Create Water" will turn long desert expeditions into walks in the park: rest assured exploring deserts will always be life-threatening, even if someone made a party with 6 druids and all had the Create Water cantrip).

Second, we strive to encourage player agency and freedom, as well as creativity in solving different challenges. Therefore, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, and many other utility spells should be indeed implemented, yes. We agree we're all for every kind of utility spell possible, and we agree Magic should be versatile and Wizards are more than just living artillery!

In this regard we've stated previously:
"Due to our fully interactive environments, almost all objects in the game world can be picked up or manipulated, and even have spells cast on them. Maybe you can open that gate by casting a telekinesis spell on the lever on the other side? Experimentation is key, and an inventive player will unearth many secrets in the depths of our dungeons".

Thus, in my feeling all Druid's 3.5e spells, including but not limited to archetypal ones like Create Water, can and should be easily implemented; same will all classes. It can be done right, meaning correctly, in a balanced way, without making foraging less necessary, without damaging the world economy, without making desert expeditions easy, and without making them spammable exploits.

Personally, I am totally against defacing or mutilating classes, or trimming their spell lists. On the contrary, in my opinion we must strive to enhance and empower the strengths, differences and specific characteristics of each Class and each Race, remaining faithful to the source: in the same way that it would be absurd to take away the Sneak Attack from the Rogue, or remove the Mage's Fireball, it would be totally inappropriate and absurd to rob the Druid of his Create Water spell, or any other Utility Spell from any Class. But that's just my opinion, and the debate has not yet been settled.

What do you guys think?

So, I am getting excited: are you aiming for an experience that is more tabletop than strictly video-game? Because if so, I agree.
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Dark_Ansem

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#759 November 10, 2018, Saturday, 11:28 am
Perhaps to find a compromise between actual multi-classing and and the approach by the devs an approach similar to Dragon Age Origins could work?
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Andronius The Druid

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#783 November 12, 2018, Monday, 07:32 pm
So, I am getting excited: are you aiming for an experience that is more tabletop than strictly video-game? Because if so, I agree.

Hey Dark Ansem! :salute: So, we're funded for the main goal and we really hope to be hitting some stretch-goals in the next days!

Tabletop vs Video-game, yeah, very long fascinating topic! In short, the answer to your question would be Yes!  8)

Dark_Ansem

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#786 November 12, 2018, Monday, 08:06 pm
So, I am getting excited: are you aiming for an experience that is more tabletop than strictly video-game? Because if so, I agree.

Hey Dark Ansem! :salute: So, we're funded for the main goal and we really hope to be hitting some stretch-goals in the next days!

Tabletop vs Video-game, yeah, very long fascinating topic! In short, the answer to your question would be Yes!  8)

Congrats and Thank you! now what about the other post I made?
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The Infinity Sock

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#1168 January 12, 2019, Saturday, 08:31 pm
Looking forward to playing the archmage prestige class in this game i have always wanted to play this prestige class in a crpg game this will be the first time i will be able to play as a archmage :)

LadyBard

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#1193 January 17, 2019, Thursday, 09:54 am
Looking forward to playing the archmage prestige class in this game i have always wanted to play this prestige class in a crpg game this will be the first time i will be able to play as a archmage :)

Keep in mind they said game POSSIBLY included those multiclasses.
Lady Bard, at your dispossal

Dark_Ansem

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#1194 January 17, 2019, Thursday, 12:15 pm
Not multi-class. Prestige-class.
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rjshae

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#1201 January 18, 2019, Friday, 06:07 am
Prestige Classes?

Yeah, possible prestige classes are: Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Archmage, Assassin, Blackguard, Cerebremancer, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Elocater, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Metamind, Mystic Theurge, Psion Uncarnate, Psionic Fist, Pyrokineticist, Shadowdancer, Slayer, Thaumaturgist, Thrallherd, War Mind.

Some of these PrC's have a requirement to manifest psionic powers: Cerebremaster, Elocater, Metamind, Psion Uncarnate, Psionic Fist, Thrallherd, and War Mind. Does that mean we'll be seeing a Psion class at some point?

Also, Divine Champion would be a nice PrC for those who want to play a non-LG Paladin-like character.

LadyBard

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#1464 March 15, 2019, Friday, 07:42 pm
Prestige Classes?

Yeah, possible prestige classes are: Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Archmage, Assassin, Blackguard, Cerebremancer, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Elocater, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Metamind, Mystic Theurge, Psion Uncarnate, Psionic Fist, Pyrokineticist, Shadowdancer, Slayer, Thaumaturgist, Thrallherd, War Mind.

Some of these PrC's have a requirement to manifest psionic powers: Cerebremaster, Elocater, Metamind, Psion Uncarnate, Psionic Fist, Thrallherd, and War Mind. Does that mean we'll be seeing a Psion class at some point?

Also, Divine Champion would be a nice PrC for those who want to play a non-LG Paladin-like character.

Based on amount of psion PrC & lack of some other...
Lady Bard, at your dispossal